tv Bloomberg Businessweek Debrief A Conversation With Justin Trudeau Bloomberg April 30, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT
>> coming up, canadian prime minister justin trudeau speaks exclusively with bloomberg editor-in-chief john micklethwait on the future of trade. p.m. trudeau: we are in favor of trade deals. we are in favor of progressive trade deals. >> on pathways to growth. p.m. trudeau: we're in favor of investing in things that make a difference in people's lives. >> on controversy. p.m. trudeau: the reason we are looking to legalize marijuana is cause the current system is not protecting our kids. >> and odealing with donald trump. p.m. trudeau: i've learned that he listens. >> it's all straight ahead on a special "bloomberg businessweek debrief."
john: prime minister trudeau, welcome back to bloomberg. [speaking french] john: that, you will be relieved to hear, is the last french you'll be hearing from me. can we begin with trade? the last time we spoke, you had barack obama in the white house, nafta was a thing of beauty. we were partners. you still say you are extremely pro-free trade and canada relies on this a great deal. on tuesday, donald trump went to wisconsin and promised he would protect dairy farmers against unfair trade and cited canada in particular. he also said for good measure, "we're going to get rid of nafta once and for all." i think this is your first chance to give your reaction to this constructive dialogue. [laughter] john: would you like to take it away? p.m. trudeau: one of the fundamental things canada and canadians know is trade can be a fundamental driver of tremendous growth.
one of the challenges we have seen in the rise of populist or nationalist politics around the world is the reflection that trade has not always been great for everyone. sometimes it benefited only the top tier of any economy, certain multinationals not smaller businesses. there is a generalized anxiety amongst significant majorities in our populations that are anxious about their own economic well-being in their own future, and the other worries about foreign trade, foreign investment are easy to point to as a challenge. the issue, however, is if you end up going down a highly protectionistic route, if you end up creating barriers and tariff walls and what have you,
everyone ends up suffering, including and especially the middle class. john: he is trying to get rid of the milk subsidies you give to people. p.m. trudeau: as we approach trade, we have to make the arguments for it. we have to reassure people that we are being fair and responsible about trade and that there's ways to include everyone in the benefits of trade -- small and medium-sized businesses, agricultural producers. any conversation around that starts with recognizing the facts, and i understand how certain governors are speaking to certain constituencies on that. it's politics. at the same time, e u.s. has a $400 mil dairy surplus with canada, so it's not canada that is the challenge here.
the way we approach our very constructive relationship with the united states on trade and other things is to base both around the facts of the issues and a shared desire to see citizens on both of our sides of the border succeed. we know that trade, nafta, free and open trade between canada and the u.s. creates jobs on both sides of the border, so we are not going to overreact. we're going to lay out the facts and have substantive conversations about how to improve the benefits for citizens on both sides of our border. john: on particular things to do with milk, every canadian family pays several hundred dollars more in terms of their annual milk bill because of certain protections you have. on this one thing, you admit donald trump has a point? p.m. trudeau: let's not pretend we are in a global free trade world. every country protect their
agricultural industries. we have a supply management system that works very well in canada. americans and other countries choose to subsidize to the tune of hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars their agricultural industries, including dairy. different countries have different approaches, and we are going to engage in a thoughtful, fact-based conversation in a way that protects our consumers and agricultural producers. john: in this thoughtful, fact-based discussion, maybe we can look at nafta. where do youate the dangers of naa? you came in making these big statements, and at this precise time, it does not seem there is a way of getting rid of nafta. p.m. trudeau: one of the precise things we did -- and this is not unique to this particular administration -- any incoming administration needs to hear from canada on how important the canadian-u.s. trade relationship
is because it is often overlooked or taken for granted by american policymakers and lawmakers. we did a really good job of highlighting how many good, middle-class jobs on both sides of the border, but particularly the united states, depend on free trade with canada. the argument we have made about trade being good for everyone, about amplifying our success on either side of the border -- the auto pact being a great example of that where a part can cross the border six times before ending up in a finished automobile -- we have a relationship unlike just about anyone else in the world between two countries, and a lot of that is based on mutually beneficial trade policies. john: your ambassador in washington said you felt the border tax would never happen. do you agree with that? is that something now off the
table? p.m. trudeau: i'm not going to make any productions on what is going to come forward on the u.s. or policy side. i know we have made a very clear case that adding taxes or regulation to a part crisscrossing six times, the amount of bureaucratic red tape, the amount of layers and impediments to jobs on either side would be really problematic, and i do not think people who are promoting that border tax within the american congress have absolutely thought through the consequences. john: do you think this is an area where trump may have overreached? p.m. trudeau: i think the issue facing president trump is that he made a promise to do things that were good for the middle class and that he was going to help people who felt like they were not part of the economic
success of their country and killing jobs because of thickening borders between canada and the u.s. is not something that mr. trump is particularly interested in. john: let me talk to you about tpp. you have not spoken out in favor of that, which sits idly with your general pro-free-trade stance. is that something you think could be developed without america? p.m. trudeau: we are in far of tre deals. we are in favor of progressive trade deals. when we came to ofce, e canada-eu deal was in big trouble. it was basically stalled. a whole bunch of significant parties in and across europe had decided that it was a bad thing, and we had to go back to the drawing board a little bit and make it slightly more progressive, and make tweaks to it that would reassure people
that there was still capacity to protect workers, the environment, labor rights, health benefits -- those kinds of things. so we are always looking for good trade deals for canada. i think as we move forward in what seems to be a post-tpp world, we are very much interested in continuing to grow our relationships with asia, look at how we can -- john: but not the tpp itself? p.m. trudeau: i know there's lots of discussions if there will be a tpp minus the u.s., different clusters or clumpings bilaterals. -- or more bilaterals. we're just happy to being gauged in the discussions because we know trade will benefit both canadians and our trading partners. >> coming up, justin trudeau explains why canada is so well-suited to cope with global economic transformation. p.m. trudeau: we do better with diversity than most countries in the world. a lot of businesses are beginning to understand that the capacity to have a lot of different backgrounds coming
♪ john: during the election, you talked about getting rid of deficits. this year, you will run up a $20 billion deficit alone. what has changed? trudeau: well, if you want to do the math we talked about $10 , billion worth of deficit in our first year. it became $30 billion, but there was still only about $10 billion or $11 billion worth of new spending, and it was the economic situation that sort of fell out, and we have the question to ask ourselves -- do
we then stick with our plan of investing in infrastructure, education, research, putting more money in the pockets of the middle class because we think it is more important now that the economy has gotten worse than we expected, or do we pull back and make cuts and not make those investments? i think it was very clear in the election that our proposal to invest in infrastructure, in research, in canadians again was not just what canadians wanted and shows but was the right -- chose but was the right , solution to move forward. we are seeing positive signs in terms of employment numbers, in terms of growth, in terms of global investment. john: i think u have an economy that is due to grow by 2.6% this year, ster than anyone else in the g7, as you will doubtless point out to me. isn't that an opportunity to return to dealing with the deficit because you don't need a stimulus for that?
p.m. trudeau: we have the lowest debt to gdp ratio of anyone in the g7. -- the g7 the oecd. , we are in an extremely healthy situation, and we are doing well because we are back investing in the kinds of things that are making a difference in people's lives, if it's public transit to get people from home to work more reliably, if it's investing for the first time in a long time $11 billion so the federal government can reengage in a national housing strategy, which here in toronto is a particularly poignant challenge. we are engaging in childcare again because we know that ensuring there are childcare options is a great way of benefiting our workforce by allowing more women to succeed within the workforce. these are things we are doing because of the word stimulus.
not because of stimulative effect but because they are smart things to do both in the short term and long term because they are pathways to growing for the middle class. john: what happens to the general long-term rate of growth in canada? everyone is sort of struggling with it at the moment. there is at least the perception we are suffering from secular stagnation. what are the ideas you got that will make canada out do that? p.m. trudeau: i think one of the things that is at the root of the worries or anxiety that so many people have is that they see their jobs being replaced by automation, by ai, by robots, by various innovationand improvements in the technology that surrounds our workplace. instead of saying, "ok, well, how do we slow down the pace of automation and protect through various barriers our workforce,"
what we have chosen to do -- and it was at the center of the most recent budget put forward a month ago -- was how do we prepare citizens or workers to be part of the revolution in how our workplace functions? how are we encouraging k-12 students to learn how to code? how are we encouraging access to university, career college, to technical vocation schools to students so they are able to access that, but also how do we take people who are in the workforce already or looking at their industry saying, "i need to change my industry or get significantly more skills if i'm going to continue to have a job 10 years from now" and get them back into school? we are focused on upskilling workers so they can be part of the changes that are coming. john: virtually every leader around the word was beginning to grapple with this.
is there a country you see as a model for this? obama talked about it a great deal before he left. and the european countries are uncomfortable with the idea of there not being jobs in the future. which country do you think is furthest ahead on that, apart from canada? p.m. trudeau: i think we can draw on lessons and snippets from a number of places, but i think canada, as you point out, is already well down this path, and we have some of the highest rates of post secondary education in our workforce of any country. we had tremendous investments in research universities and institutions that make us a place that silicon valley loves to come and poach from. part of our advantage is being able to draw in the best and brightest from around the world and create stimulating, creative environments for our stem graduates to create and grow in. that's why we are looking at
improving our capacity to draw in global talent more rapidly so companies looking to invest and open up shops here can bring their top people to train some of our great graduates. john: do you think donald trump's stance on immigration and things like that is a bonus for your country? p.m. trudeau: when people ask if canada would be flooded by immigrants fleeing a trump victory, that happens every election cycle -- "if this person wins, i'm moving to canada" -- and that never happens very much. maybe some. john: they must have gone the opposite way. .m. trudeau: maybe some. but the idea that we can emphasize certain things of canada's comparative advantage -- we do better with diversity than most countries in
the world, and a lot of businesses are beginning to understand that the capacity to have diversity on your board or on your shop floor, if it's a gender balance or just a lot of different backgrounds coming together to solve challenging problems creates better growth, better solutions, better innovation. john: maybe not next year, but at some point, governments will have to start creating almost make-believe jobs in order to keep people employed. you cannot do otherwise. you are being pushed out by automation. p.m. trudeau: i think that's a question a lot of folks are struggling with, but what we saw every time there was a big transformation, if it was the industrial revolution and the steam engine and there was always worried that there would be no more jobs, and every transformation, yes, put a number of people -- john: there was a delay, though. each time, the jobs do come, but sometimes it is 10, 20 years before they do.
p.m. trudeau: each time, looking at the delay that happened 100 or 200 years ago, it enables you -- it is different from understanding that the pace changes so rapidly. i'm not saying there will not be disruption. there will be challenges, and we know that as the workforce changes. but as we tool up, our workforce to be more flexible, more open, more skilled in seeing where the opportunities are, we are going to be better positioned than anyone else in the world to draw on that. >> up next on this "bloomberg businessweek debrief," justin trudeau's candid thoughts on donald trump. p.m. trudeau: he is a little bit unlike many politicians. john: and we're going to leave that sentence right there. ♪
bit about trump. what have you learned about him so far? p.m. trudeau: i've learned that he listens. he is a little bit unlike many politicians. john: that might be better to leave that sentence ghthere. [laughter] p.m. trudeau: as politicians, we are very much trained to say something and stick with it, whereas he has shown that if he says one thing and actually hears good counter arguments or good reasons why he should shift his position, he will take a different position if it is a better one, if the arguments win him over, and i think there is a challenge in that for electors, but there's also an opportunity in that for people who engage with him to try to work to achieve, you know, the beneficial outcome.
john: in a strange way he has , helped you define yourself more clearly? you are often cited as the anti-trump because you believe this whole liberal order. p.m. trudeau: i think i can speak for all canadians in the room when i say we work very hard to be not defined as not american. ontry to define ourselves our own terms, and that canadians are just not americans is an easy shortcut that canadians do not approve of. john: you look around room, you have trump taking a somewhat protectionist stance. you have prime minister may talking about global citizens being something she does not believe in. you are increasingly looking like the last liberal, in the anglo-saxon way of being pro-free trade and a social liberal as well. at the moment that is not a , popular place to be. p.m. trudeau: i think canadians have understand that openness in the world, drawing on others' diversity, working with each other rather than to antagonize each other is what has made us
successful and what has given us an incredibly stable society, stable economy, stable political situation in a world that is under certain -- john: ideologically, do you feel you have any natural allies? p.m. trudeau: i think a lot of people are trying to solve the same challenge i am, which is how to make the middle class successful. ultimately, an economy can only be strong in the 21st century if everyone feels like they have opportunities in it. if you see a rise in nationalism or populism, it is a response to the fears people are feeling. my economic approach is very much to allay those fears. the policy toolboxes we choose to use might vary a little bit. john: do you have any idea what populism of that sort has not
really taken off in canada? p.m. trudeau: we look at some of the narratives coming out of the leadership campaigns of the other two major parties, and you can see that there is a strong drive toward populism, even -- or at least to use some of the populist tools. even in our election in 2015, we made -- i made a conscious choice to try to draw people together to work on allaying ferath than highlighting or exacerbating them. i came in to government that was working on headscarf bans and a hard-line to muslims and a fear-filled narrative that canadians chose to reject for a large part because there is a positive, inclusive solutions-based alternative on
offer, and i think that which worked in canada can and should work elsewhere. the mayor of london ran on a similar platform six months after we won. there is an openness out there for citizens pull out the best within us rather than to protect themselves from the worst within us, and i think that is a message people are beginning to get around the world. >> still to come on this "bloomberg businessweek debrief," why justin trudeau is spending political capital to legalize cannabis. p.m. trudeau: it is right now easier for an underage canadian, a teenager, to buy a joint than it is to get their hands on a bottle of beer. >> also ahead, why canada is bucking the nationalist trends and making cooperation a principal of national policy.
>> you are watching a special "bloomberg businessweek debrief," a conversation with canadian prime minister justin trudeau. here is bloomberg editor-in-chief, john micklethwait. john: we're in toronto. housing prices are going up almost by a third over the past year. but huge growth in vancouver as well. and today, the ontario government announced a 15% tax on foreigners coming to buy houses here. so, i have two questions for you. one -- is this a bubble, and is this the way to fix it? the other one is, surely as a liberal, what is wrong with someone like me coming here to buy a house? p.m. trudeau: i encourage you to come and move to canada, and
settle spend all of your money, , and invest, and hire more people. we are open to global investment. i think one of the challenges we are facing, and we certainly saw it -- john: you can't, with a straight face, say you are open to global investment on one hand, but then charge people 15% if they want to buy a house? p.m. trudeau: it depends on whether it is speculation, or whether it is living to move moving in to live. the challenge that we're facg is, and we saw this more acutely a year ago in vancouver, a dearth of data on exactly who's doing what. one of the things they were calling on the federal government to do is tightening on some of the mortgage rules. the housing market in vancouver or toronto is somewhat different than in halifax. john: do you see the housing
markets in toronto staying as a bubble? it looks like one from the outside. p.m. trudeau: i think we are looking at a time of pressures on housing that need to be alleviated, which is why, instead of reacting on the short-term level, are reacting with a long-term, 10-year housing strategy that will build more rental units, and build more affordable housing. the federal government is investing over $11 billion. and we are going to work with cities to create a stability there that i think people need. people need to be able to afford their homes in the cities that they work. john: which bit worries you most? this idea of this bubble popping, or continuing to go along and push ever more houses out of the reach of the affordability of people? p.m. trudeau: i think -- i will let the housing speculators and experts make determinations around that. my focus is on making sure that for the medium and long-term, people in toronto, and across the country, can afford their homes. and that means working on the supply side, making sure we are
investing in more rental stock. making sure that we are investing in new construction in affordable housing so the market can adjust itself without either popping or crashing. john: what worries you most in the ag economy at the moment? p.m. trudeau: a lot of it is around confidence versus anxiety. as we have seen, people continue to sense that their kids aren't going to have the kind of opportunities and quality of life they were able to inherit from their parents. a sense of unfairness. a lack of progress or upward mobility. then we get an openness to extreme measures and lashing out. that is where i think the responsibility of our government
is to demonstrate that we are hearing and allaying those fears. that is where the canada child benefit came in last year where we gave more money to nine out of ten canadian families every month, the cost of raising their kids by not sending that to the wealthiest families. we were able to do a little more on that. we lowered taxes for the middle class by raising them a little bit on the wealthiest 1%. and we strengthened the canada pension plan for future generations where young people, who are entering the workforce now, because of what we did on strengthening cpp, can be more confident in having retirement at the end of their work career in decades. this particular budget was very
much focused on measures to give people the tools to feel included in the future economy, whether it is innovation, or skills training, and education. these are the kinds of things people look at and say, ok, yes the world is changing, but our government and our society is adapting in ways that gives me confidence we are going to able to be apart of it. john: do you think that canada has moved away from that resource curse? maybe your father would've said, look, maybe one of the biggest worries we have is we are so linked to natural resources. is that now, or the canada of the past? p.m. trudeau: canada will always have a tremendous amount of its wealth, year-over-year, based on natural resources. we are a country of great, natural resources that the world will continue to need. and that's a good thing. but what we have actually discovered is that how we draw on those natural resources has
required and has engaged more and more innovative technologies, more and more creative thinking, more and more solutions that aren't just good for here, but for around the world. how to continue to draw on the oil in an evermore responsible and efficient way. how to look at better agricultural and food production in a place where our winters are strong, and our seasons are short, being more innovative about how we create productivity gains in our agri-food industry. these are the kinds of things that actually show that a natural resource economy can be blended with a knowledge economy, a human capital economy. and fundamentally, of all the great resources we have, the greatest will always be canadians ourselves. that is why investing in education, in training, in
opportunities for ambitious canadians to succeed, and for people coming from around the world who want to build a better life for themselves and their family, willlsbe able to succeed and contribute to our country. john: you mentioned confidence, anxiety, and agricultural innovation. poty, i'll service it is a -- i also noticed it is a pot holiday. you have made these steps toward legalizing marijuana, pushing that forward next year. it may be in place by the summer of 2018. one thing i have noticed, is the government make money out of this? is this something you will tax? that's one thing that's not very clear to me. p.m. trudeau: it is not very clear to you because we have not focused on that. the reason we are choosing to legalize and control marijuana is because the current system is not protecting our kids. right now, it is easier for an underaged canadian teenager to buy a joint than it is for them to get their hands on a bottle of beer. and whatever you may think about the relative harms of marijuana versus alcohol or cigarettes,
marijuana is not good for the developing brain, not good for our kids. we need to do a better job making it more difficult, at least as difficult as it is to access alcohol, as it can be. that is the main part of our legalization strategy, along with recognizing that criminal organizations and street gangs are making billions of dollars every single year off of the sale of marijuana, which they then funnel into other criminal activities. so, you put those two things together, anyou alize, w have a system that isn't working. can we change it? can we make it more difficult for young people to access marijuana? can we put the sale of marijuana through a regulated and overseen frame that the government will put forward to make sure there is quality control? make sure that profits aren't
going to illicit corners? and yes, draw on tax revenues that can then be put into public education campaigns, better advocacy, better work in mental health, and addiction services for all drugs. those are the kinds of things we see as a logical step forward. so the lens we are taking, yes, there will be most likely be plenty of economic activity and profits. john: do you have any idea on what sort of industry may emerge? what seems to be happening in america is a consolidation around a few big companies might happen? p.m. trudeau: again, we are at the very beginning of some thoughtful conversations with the provinces. something that, quite frankly, the world is looking at to see what canada does, and how we do it. but if you look to alcohol as a model, you have big, global
players in beer in canada, but you also have a lot of microbreweries. and there is that is the capacity in consumer choice if you want to choose what you want, there are options out there. i think ensuring that there is a range of business opportunities for small, local producers, and larger producers, is not an unreasonable visn for what that industry could look like. but again, we're looking at it from a public health and safety standpoint, as opposed to some other places that legalized it on a commercial basis. that will come later. we're going to get public health and safety ready first. john: on the public health thing, you are satisfied that despite all of this evidence there are now more stronger, more industrial strength marijuana out there, that is something that will be better under a legal system? p.m. trudeau: when you don't
know what is in what you are buying from a stairwell or a criminal organization, i think with health canada properly regulating everything from thc levels to the use of pesticides, people will have a lot better idea of what it is they are choosing to buy if they make that choice. >> coming up, justin trudeau on the complex issue of immigration. p.m. trudeau: lots of countries can do more and will be doing more, but there are a lot of things that need to be done internationally to allow people to return home. ♪
♪ john: let me ask you quickly about immigration. you mentioned it a bit in the context of america. this prospect of -- you seem to be a champion of immigration, but you've also been happy with caps on it. where do you stand on syrian refugees? is it something that you are going to welcome evermore? or is it something where you have ideas of limits? p.m. trudeau: there are 60 million plus refugees around the world right now. lots of countries can do more and will be doing more, but there are a lot of things that need to be done internationally to allow people to return home, rather than just say the solution is to welcome in everyone because canada cannot
take in 60 million people, obviously. one of the things that is extraordinary about canada is that we've managed to keep tremendously strong, public support for immigration, and that has happened over generations, whether it was welcoming somali refugees from east africa in the early 1970's, whether it was the vietnamese boat people in the early 1980's, whether it was successive waves of refugees fleeing from eastern europe, kosovo and elsewhere. there has been a story of success for immigran and refugees coming to canada where within a few years, they get integrated, they get good jobs, their kids become fully canadian while still proud of their own culture. and canadians know that that path works. and the limit we have on how many people we can bring in is not related to some arbitrary number, but how well can we support the newcomers and
integrate them effectively and quickly? and if we do a good job of making sure that there is a path to success for people who come here, then public support will continue. john: what is different about canada is that when you look at america, when you look at britain, they were both , at least statistically fantastic examples of immigrant , success stories, and yet they both elected or supported people who have been less prone to immigrants, if i can put it that way. p.m. trudeau: it comes down to identity and values. canada is a country that has always accepted, from the very beginning, english versus french, but someone different from you was just as much and was just as legitimately canadian as you were. so, we've managed to make of this pluralism, the core of our national identity, and that we share values of openness, compassion, willingness to work
hard, quality, opportunity, desire to be there for each other, that actually defines us rather than a shared history, or language, or superficial identity that we all have to ascribe to. and that, combined with a sense that success also includes your neighbor, that when your neighbor is doing well, you are likely to do well. it is not a zero-sum game. it is a part of the canadian psyche. john: look at foreign policy through that lens. you have been something of a liberal internationalist. when you look at problems like north korea just to use that as , an example, is that one where this sort of altruism just brings you nothing? north korea is a problem that is very difficult to solve. do you have any views on that? p.m. trudeau: where one is going to solve a problem like north korea or syria, which is also very much in the news these days, there is an understanding
that working across international borders, working with various stakeholders of different countries with a rt of the solution movingo be forward, whether it is china around north korea, or iran around syria, we need to make sure the international communities are working in a cohesive way. that is where being able to engage effectively with a broad range of actors across ideologies and forms of government is important. john: do you worry about the west, which is turning in on itself? that they are less inclined to get involved in these problems as you are? p.m. trudeau: my focus is very much on what canada can and should do, and how we can be helpful at bringing people together and applying pressure where it is needed, creating a coherent, international approach
where possible. this is what i will work on and engage in whatever way works with the various allies of different ideologies. john: where does china fit into that? it is interesting to me that whilst you've been fairly outspoken on behalf of free trade and globalization, one person we seem to have heard more of is xi jinping. seems an odd ally for you to end up with. p.m. trudeau: one of the examples of where china has played a very positive role is around climate change, where they have recognized a need for real leadership there and have stepped up in a number of ways, and showed themselves to be onside with a lot of international players on how we are going to fix the environment, or improve the environment for the long-term around the world. john: do you see the possibility of a free trade deal? how would that work? p.m. trudeauwe are ctainly
sitting down with china to explore those possibilities. there is a number of challenges , not least of all is the different scales between the economy, but also challenges around values and approaches, and our recognition of expectations that canadians have around labor rights, and health rights, and environmental protections that aren't necessarily quite aligned with where china is. were many developing countries are. -- where many developing countries are. p.m. trudeau: you mentioned climate change. -- john you mentioned climate : change. surely the answer to all of those lies in countries like china or india. is that something you are working on? p.m. trudeau certainly. : how we create innovative solutions with countries like
china and india are going to be interesting in purchasing and partnering and developing a solution, so they can leapfrog some of the steps that developed countries had to go through where there was behavior that shouldn't be replicated on a global scale if we are going to make our 2% two degree target, or 1.5 degree target even. john: are you happy with china as almost as a co-equal, global leader with america, or do you still see americas being the one in the front? p.m. trudeau: i think rather than try to make grand pronouncements, we look at what we can do to bring people along, and bring ourselves along in constructive ways. are there ways to improve chinese labor laws and behaviors through better engagement with canada? that is what we are going to work on. are there ways of demonstrating to this new administration in the states that being climate
leaders is actually really good for jobs and for the economic bottom line? that is what we will do. are there ways of highlighting to europe the openness to continue trade through our agreement is a good thing? these are all ongoing conversations that canada is glad to engage with the world on, and quite frankly, as we engage with the world and highlight what we have going on here, i think a lot of people in those areas and elsewhere are looking to invest in canada. we've had a number of big companies come and say, we want to be a part of what canada is doing. with your emphasis on education, training, responsible, economic -- responsible economic development, sustainable growth -- -- these are the kinds of things that, in a world of tremendous uncertainty, seem to be on a long-term path that is interesting for a lot of investors.
♪ john: you began this conversation by talking about nafta and the things around that. you have the obvious third party in nafta, which is mexico. if america pulls out of nafta, is that an area where mexico and canada could begin to go at it alone? p.m. trudeau: we are always going to look through whatever structures exist, and how we create better opportunities to trade, and to work with our closest partners. and mexico will always be an important and close partner for us. as we engage in nafta discussions, we will see how it goes, but there is certainly things on which canada and the u.s. are uniquely compatible. other things in which canada and
mexico will be able to find common ground and common approaches. other things in which it will be a u.s.-mexico conversation. this is all natural for moving forward in responsible, thoughtful ways. john: do you think it's a legitimate subject to bring up -- nafta and the idea of redesigning it? is that something we should look at? p.m. trudeau: i think nafta has been improved a dozen times over the past 20 years. we're always looking for ways to improve the benefits for all of our citizens. one of the things with canada is we're of a modest enough siz that we never feel that it is the ideal outcome of any given deal is if we win and you lose. we are always looking for ways where there is mutual benefit. i think we have been able to demonstrate, time and time again, that trade can benefit both partners. john: isn't that the point where you are the most anti-trump is a lot of the new president's rhetoric is exactly about "i win, you lose," or vice versa?
and a lot of it also is that he does see it as a zero-sum game. and that is the fundamental difference between you. p.m. trudeau: what have we been able to highlight to the new administration is that, with canada at the very least, it is not a zero-sum game. a lot of great jobs on both sides of the border depend on this great relationship that will continue. i think of that as a way of moving forward, and as a lesson for us all and as an example to the world is very much one of things that we will try to push. john: thank you very much. [applause] ♪